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Report 1122
Report #1122 Skillset: Blademaster Skill: Haymaker Org: Paladins Status: Completed May 2013 Furies' Decision: Solution 1. Problem: Haymaker sees little to no use at its current power requirement and cost. As per my testing, the skill works like this: Haymaker requires 10p to use and does four swings at the targeted body part, hits of which cause normal wounding. It will use power depending on how many hits go through (2p for 1 hit, 3p for 2 hits, 5p for 3 hits, 10p for 4 hits). Haymaker razes rebounding before the four swings (shield blocks it). Report 6 suggests that it circumvents parry and stance more easily than normal hits, but to be sure, more testing would be needed. You cannot behead with Haymaker. So the power cost per attack is slightly lower than for a lunge when you hit up to three times, the last hit adds a whopping 5 power. That potentially high power cost and the fact that you need 10p to even try the skill are its big downsides. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Reduce the power cost of Haymaker to 1/2/3/5 for 1/2/3/4 successful hits. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, make it possible to behead with Haymaker. This will require the skill to be used at 10p, and the behead is only possible if all four attacks hit (so only the fourth successful attack of the haymaker has that chance). In case of a successful behead, the skill costs the full 10p, otherwise 5p for 4 hits. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Make Haymaker a defense that costs 5p and lasts 30 seconds. During this time, the warrior will be in a berserker-like state which allows them to attack at 50% increased speed. However, they will only be able to use swings, and those have a higher than normal chance to hit alternative body parts. Additionally to this, the warrior benefits from 40% shorter writhing time and stun duration while they keep up their attack spree. This means that, while the defense is active, each successful attack will provide 3 seconds of the protection or extend the duration of it to 3 seconds. Player Comments: ---on 4/1 @ 00:57 writes: The power cost of Haymaker may be a little too high, but I don't believe that it should be halved. The comparison that should be made here is against Pulp. Report 773 has the last changes that were made to that skill. I'm not sure if the separate attacks for each arm balance would be appropriate here but the max power could be lowered to 8. It would shorten the cost of that last attack so that it would be 2/3/5/8. ---on 4/1 @ 02:24 writes: Pulp is another skill that (almost) noone uses and is also on my chopping block for changing. Or an attempt to. I think the best comparison in terms of power is lunge, which does 60% increased wounding. That's 3.2 times the wounding of a normal attack per lunge combo (4p) vs. 4 times for a full haymaker (10p right now, 5p suggested). Lunge completely circumvents rebounding, stance and parry. It would be okay to remove the increased stance/parry bypassing of haymaker if the lower power cost gets approved, but in the tests I did, haymaker did get completely blocked by stance or parry several times (all 4 hits), so it's not THAT great against them. ---on 4/1 @ 15:35 writes: 1 looks good! 2 I am wary of as I think group beheads are teetering (if not past) the edge of too easy and quick. 3 is an April Fool's joke. ---on 4/2 @ 03:24 writes: 1 is fine. ---on 4/3 @ 18:02 writes: Solution 1 supported. Solution 2 and 3 not supported. Group beheadings would become an even bigger problem through Solution 2 and Solution 3 is over the top. ---on 4/4 @ 17:25 writes: Solution 1 ---on 4/5 @ 13:18 writes: Solution 1 is fine, no to solution 2 and 3. ---on 4/9 @ 22:13 writes: Haymaker has always been a problem skill, which is one of the reasons I think it hasn't been touched in a long time. Solution 1 is a great improvement, but would it be used? The way warriors work, I just don't see any situation where I'd rather use Haymaker over well planned lunges. They're more power effective, bypass stance and parry and easier to sustain wounding with. The burst nature of Haymaker just doesn't fit in at all with the rest of Blademaster. Solution 2 is something I've thought about, but ultimately have to side with the others that this skill will just be used in groups for quicker beheadings (which isn't needed or wanted). Solution 3 probably is over the top, but only because it would only be used in groups where again, warriors don't need it. At the timing of this post, I don't have better ideas on what to do with Haymaker, so I'll support solution 1 for now. If there were ideas that could make this valuable 1v1, worthy of a trans-skill and balanced, I'd prefer that, as even with this change no one will use it. Haymaker probably should be thrown out and redesigned altogether. ---on 4/16 @ 03:20 writes: I am still of the firm belief that Haymaker should be usable in a farmlands type room and create quest hay when performed. Other than this, I disagree with solutions 2 and 3 as they are too far-reaching, Solution 1 only. ---on 4/20 @ 22:55 writes: Solution 1 only, I'm with Rivius on this one with shooting for a redesign. ---on 5/3 @ 15:50 writes: Solution 1, I think more than 5 power would be better though. No to solution 2 and 3 is ridiculous on a number of levels. It's op and I can't believe that the weapon of choice for your average berserker would be a rapier. ---on 5/8 @ 11:01 writes: Sol. #1 supported. ---on 5/13 @ 05:40 writes: *bump* Haymaker in farmlands rooms should totally make quest hay! ---on 5/20 @ 18:39 writes: Solution 1